Dallas Morning News came out and shot a video of the picketing last night.
Check it out at:
http://www.dallasnews.com/video/dallasnews/hp/index.html?nvid=268517
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This petition is from late 2009. After the Red Oak vs the Town of Flower Mound case was dismissed . Members of a household over the age of 18 may sign on a separate line. Whether you have signed a lease, not signed a lease, or do not own your mineral rights, you should be very concerned about any changes to the Oil & Gas Ordinance. The ordinance stood up in the court of law.
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77 comments:
Reminder to everyone to watch the NBC program Friday night at 7pm on the Barnett Shale. The better educated we are about our opponent, the more quality the fight.
Apparently you didn't get the memo, if you do not believe in urban drilling, you are a dolt, incapable of an original thought, or cohesive argument. ;)
Not me dude..I believe in it!
First, aren't there already pipelines under our streets? How do we get the gas that powers our heaters and stoves?
So you're willing to have gas drilled in other neighborhoods, just not yours? But you still want to use their gas?
Do you really think trucks drive down the middle of your street picking off kids on bicycles? Or is it that they use a private access road that nobody uses.
I wonder why you need to bring in people from other cities to protest your ideas? I think there were only a couple people from Flower Mound in this video.
Now I see why Jellison lost the election.
There are so many inaccuracies in your post that I simply have to respond:
1) We obtain the natural gas that we use in our homes through very small, very low pressure lines. The pipelines required to transport natural gas from the drill sites are extremely high pressure and can be as much as 36" in diameter. Your comparison is silly.
2) As one individual eloquently stated in the video, we are not against gas drilling--we're against gas drilling in highly residential areas. We are against gas drilling in OUR backyard as well as YOUR backyard.
3) Please let me know where the "private access road is that nobody uses" is. There isn't one. The hundreds of trucks required to transport water, sand, equipment, etc. will travel down the roads that you and I use everyday. And if drilling is eventually approved in locations such as Northshore, it is very likely that the trucks will have no alternative, but to drive down residential streets.
4) You’re wrong. Every single person in that video is a Flower Mound resident. Every single person in that video has been involved with other protests, Town Council meetings, O&G Board of Appeals meetings, etc. (How many meetings have you attended?)
5) And one last thing, Mr. Jellison has never been a candidate for election.
I encourage open and spirited debate. But for it to be valuable, it requires both sides to be educated about the issue at hand. (I absolutely acknowledge that there are two sides to this debate.) However, that is impossible in this instance because you are so thoroughly ignorant of the issues related to urban gas drilling.
I am not a real technical person but I know there are different kinds of pipelines. The ones currently under our neighborhoods are for the gas that comes into our homes and is scented so when there is a leak, it can be detected. The kind of pipeline they are talking about would transfer raw, sweet, unodorized gas with high pressure from the drill site. Much more dangerous since it can't be detected. Also the people at the protest were from Flower Mound. It might say some Bridlewood residents but that is still Flower Mound!
Different annonymouse here,
The North Shore, Hilliard and Riverwalk Drilling locations will use State Farm roads that are not built nor funded by the city of Flower Mound. To drive down residential streets such as Bridlewood with large trucks is a different issue. Although it does seem okay for concrete trucks, pool building trucks, sod trucks, lumber trucks, etc... to do so. It is simply more politically correct and a band wagon issue to regulate gas truck traffic. If there is a safety issue involved with the well sites themselves, that should be the focus. The issue is not truck traffic.
The major pipeline near Flower Mound that would be needed to transport any gas drilled from these wells out - Atmos owns it, I believe - is near capacity.
Guess what that means. New high pressure pipelines could end up being required. Could go right through Flower Mound. Guess what? If they want to go down the center of a neighborhood, they may have that option. Heck they might even go through your house, if that's most efficient.
Eminent Domain, people.
With the downturn in today's housing market, will I get fair market value for the pipeline? Hmmm... Since I haven't been able to sell it, maybe I could take the money and buy a house in a quiet little area without so many darn large cars and so many people.
And by the way, Atmos owns transmission lines, not gas well gathering lines. And if an Atmos transmission line is near capacity, then too darn many people around here use the stuff.
Back to the trucks in the neighborhoods. To compare gas well drilling truck traffic to pool building and concrete trucks is crazy. How many trucks are needed to build one pool? Not very many but the drilling is 24/7 for up to 6 weeks per well and then there is the fracking that takes sand and water trucks. Then the waste water has to be trucked out. There is no comparison. Please do you research before you post arguments on the site. If you did some research you might decide Urban gas drilling is not good for ANY neighborhood.
To scare people with the threat of a 36" pipeline in their front yard is also silly. That will not happen. Those are major trunk lines. To have open debate, there definitely needs to be less " ignorance" on both sides.
To quote Mark Twain "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as much as you please". It appears that too many people who post on this blog need a bit more factual information, instead of hearsay.
I have done my research. Have you. Have you been to a drill site? Have you travelled up and down 1171 5 or 6 times a day and have yet to be hindered by the "hundreds of trucks" (actually only been behind two so far) for the ten or so wells between Skillern and Scenic? I didn't think so. Where does your research come from? The FMCAUD? Geez, people the internet is a valuble tool. Use it for yourselves and trust no one else. Do the research yourself, not the flyers. This will pass like a wave over this town and be gone before you know it. And we can all move on. Protest the war in Iraq or something. Drink another glass of wine.
I don't care how thick the pipe is. If it is carrying unodorized gas by my house, that is scary. Also, they do use 36" and 42" pipelines to transfer gas all over from the Compression Stations. Google Energy Transfer partners. They just completed one from Cleburne to Carthage. Also Crosstex Energy Services does the same. Where they put a Compression Stations determines where the larger pipeline will go. But it will go somewhere. The fact is, raw, unordorized gas has to get out from the well so the gas companies can make their millions, charge us up the ying yang for it when it is piped back into our homes and give us our few pennies for our royalties from postage stamp lots.
"The North Shore....Drilling location[s] will use State Farm roads" - looked at a map lately? There are only residential streets and minor (non-FM) roads to get to that site. Speaking of doing research before posting.
"This will pass like a wave over this town and be gone before you know it." - I know you weren't the same person that said this before (probably) but other people were making that comment time and time again before the election. That once the election is over, this will all go away. It didn't go away.
While you are out picketing Cherokee Horn, have you ever given thought to the other businesses that are in the complex? Cherokee Horn was a late-comer to the area and most, if not all, of the other small businesses adjacent to Cherokee Horn's office were there long before Cherokee Horn came to town. Most of these small businesses are owned and operated by Flower Mound residents. It is not pleasant for their customers and clients to have to drive through picketing to do their business. Do you really think the very slight benefit of getting your face and name in the newspaper justifies the potential damage that may be visited upon your fellow Flower Mounders?
Just because you have the right does not make it right.
Anyone who can read can see that the picketing was clearly for gas drilling. No one was standing in the driveway or in the office complex. The picketing is done on the sidewalk away from the other businesses. It never has stopped anyone from going into those businesses. Most of the picketing has been done on Saturday and Sunday for a few hours at a time. Wednesday was the first time it was in the evening. By the way, most of those business are closed when we are picketing. We are thinking of our fellow Flower Mounders (as you put it). We don't want this 300 or 500 feet from any residents home. At least we have the guts to fight for what we believe in and put ourselves out there, which we do have the right to do.
I own and operate one of those businesses adjacent to Cherokee Horn. This is not the first time an anti-urban drilling group has picketed on a day other than Saturday or Sunday or during business hours. This group has actively picketed while my office was open now on at least two occasions.
Again, I never said you did not have the right to do it—I just asked you to consider whether it was right to do.
Why don't you come out with your "pro-drilling" sign, you are more than welcome to stand in the rain and heat with us anytime to stand for what you believe in and for. It is both your right AND "right to do" so. If any FMCAUD members gives you grief, I will be the first one to tell them to back off.
In your zeal to defend yourself you missed the point completely. I never said I was pro-drilling—you just assumed that. I have, very kindly, asked that you not picket in front of my business. An invitation to join you in more picketing only exacerbates the problem no matter what issue I support.
The FMCAUD will hopefully never be able to tell ME what shall go in my back yard, nor 300 - 500 feet from it. I don't want, nor need this group's protection. I pay Lawyers and courts for that, not Zealots.
You're right, I should not have assumed. Have you actually received complaints from clients? It is certainly not our intent to affect any other businesses, and I don't believe we have. We are legally protesting peacefully, on non-private ROW. Where would you suggest we take our protest? Also, I would like to point out that we did not bring this upon you, your leasing neighbors did, have you applied the same pressure for them to move?
I agree- fight your own fight, but don't fight it on my behalf. The FMCAUD in my opinion has taken the fight over the top. I love that FMCAUD wants the Town council and O&G Board to fight on their behalf- but the efforts to encourage them to do so with threatening emails, letters, berating language in the newspaper and on TV only serve to alienate those who truly have the power to help in the cause. I have a friend on the council and the abuse they receive from this group is unbelievable. Phone messages using offensive language, letters and emails with the same- it is a shame and the primary reason I'd rather fight this battle on my own than align with a group who uses these tactics.
We have a petition with 665 residents with name and address, not a bunch of anon postings. Where are all of the named residents who are for this? I am starting to question if it is the same one (or couple) of individuals. Of course, that could be said on the other side as well, who knows. ;)
There are "loons" on both sides, to assume that they are all associated with FMCAUD is ridiculous. Most people are confortably somewhere in the middle. There are an equal number of threats, bad language, etc coming from a small number on the other side as well. This is "noise", don't try to bury the real issue in that crap, it won't stick.
I have sent e-mails to the Town Council. None have ever had a threat in them. Just my concerns. We have had people drive by and tell us they don't agree or "show us" with a certain gesture, they don't agree. That is their right to do so and I have no problem with that. That is what is so great about this country we live in. I too have a friend on the Town Council and would never do anything like that to them or any of the other members. I have gone to the Town meetings and NEVER verbally attacked any pro driller or Council member. Nor have I seen anyone else from our group do so. But, I have been the victim of a pro driller flipping us the bird and yelling threats at us as "they" were leaving Town Hall. There are many witnesses to this too. What is more unethical than that. Maybe "they" are sending the letters and e-mails saying they are from our group to make us look bad!
Below are some links about eminent domain and how it is affecting some FT. Worth residents. This could be us someday soon. So even if you think you are far away from the drill site read this story and see it doesn't matter. The gas has to get out!!
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/796952.htm
http://txsharon.blogspot.com/2008/07/ft-worth-just-said-whoa-to-chesapeake.html#links
I think you should care if someone flips you off- that is not right. On both sides of this issue there are people who feel strongly about their position. I would like to see us take a respectful approach to our position rather than just say war is war and we'll take your vulgarities and gestures if you take ours. I know many people have taken the time to write emails and letters- many are civil and informative- but many more are hateful and vicious. Our cause has got to be taken seriously- but we injure the cause and our credibility when we resort to emotional rhetoric and arguments rather than a simple statement of fact. We have the facts on our side- we don't need to let our poor manners and emotional flareups skew those facts. We have to lead others to want to join our fight, not alienate ourselves.
I am not "burying it in that crap" I am just sick of people justifying their bad behavior because the other side is using it. You are right, it is coming from both sides. I just don't think it excuses anyone from acting in this way.
Yes, I have had to explain the picketing to my clients and colleagues. It has been disruptive. I understand that you are peaceful and I have never felt threatened. It is more the disruption and the stigma that inadvertently attaches regardless of whether my company is involved. I have also had friends and neighbors ask me why people were protesting outside my office. I have had to explain to them that the protesters were not targeting me but another company. I wonder how many others thought poorly of me based on the appearance and did not ask me about it.
I guess you could say that I am not against protesting just against protesting in dense business areas.
We cannot go closer to the actual business, respecting private property and trespass laws. Flower Mound doesn't have a "free speech" zone or area where this is commonly done. I don't know what to tell you other than we are obeying EVERY law, at least everytime I have been out there. Flower Mound Police drive by on numerous occasions and no one has been cited or even warned to my knowledge. The fact that you want us to go away because it is affecting you, bears little difference to my wanting the gas companies to go away because it is affecting me. Should you be dragged into it, no. We don't carry torches and axes, we actually are all quite approachable. We wave to nearly everyone and get a lot more thumbs up than anything else. Most of the business in those buildings are non-controversial, it seems odd that someone would associate our group to them, but I don't know what your business is, so I can't have an opinion on that.
I would like to clear something up. We have always remained professional and ethical. If there are any rude or hateful letters, remarks, etc., it is not coming from the FMCAUD group. We all agreed up front to never use that approach. To always base our opposition on research and fact. Also,when we do our protests, we go out of our way to obey the rules and laws. Most of the businesses are mortgage or real estate and maybe a landscape business. On the other side are dental, insurance and medical. I don't see how anyone can confuse URBAN GAS DRILLING with any of those types of companies. We are very clear about what we are there for. We have never blocked any cars from going into the complex. The parking lot is usually empty when we get there and when we leave and I am pretty sure we aren't keeping people away. We are only there for a few hours. Also, we aren't out there everyday 24/7. In fact, in the last six months, we have only been out there about 10 to 15 days. I am not sure what kind of business you have were protesting gas drilling 10 to 15 days out 180 days would affect you. I do not want to come across arogant and insensitive but we have a right to be there as long as we follow the rules.
I have been silent on this issue; however, I feel that I must respond to this open petition in defense of residents with opposing views. First, let me say that I applaud the citizens that are passionately protesting the drilling. We should ALL take a moment to give thanks for this right. That said, I believe that posting the names and addresses of residents that are signing a petition to go before the Council(and putting it online)is lacking the respect for those of us that have a differing opinion. In other words, it puts those neighbors that haven't signed it in an awkward and uncomfortable position. I have neighbors that are extremely passionate about the subject and I respect that. It just seems that this petition is a subtle way of putting neighbor against neighbor.
I do want to let you know that people who have signed gas leases also signed the petition. This petition was not about being against gas drilling. It was about upholding the denial of the variances on the River Walk. It is about protecting our town government and any Flower Mound town ordinance. It was never intended to put the anti drilling against the pro drilling. This legal matter is important to all and not just US who oppose urban drilling.
I understand the premise of the petition. I was specifically asked to sign it and chose to decline. If it weren't on public display, I may have reconsidered. As I stated previously, I have neighbors that are on both sides of the issue. We've witnessed the tension (ex. Bridlewood) and I don't want to "sign up" for the drama on my block.
I had no idea FM was the epi-center of overpaid tree hugging yuppies, I guess alternative fuels concerns and rising gas prices don't affect the hummer driving five thousand square foot home owners who hate the idea of seeing a gas rig on the horizon for a mere 30 days if it would help their city and the residents within it. Some of us that had to turn in our SUV's for fuel efficient cars or cut coupons to be able to continue to fund our childrens college fund could use the royalities that would come with the urban drilling. and as far as saftey is concerned, theres more accidents, or children run over by these high society flower mounders talking on their cell phones while driving than their are people injured by gas related accidents. Remember the old addage that theres no I in the word team? well there seems to be a lot of I's when it comes to some residents of flower mound, why don't we look out for everyone instead of just the rich that seem to have all this time to shoot down the dreams of many hoping to get a liitle relief from the economy that ironically in the hands of the rich itself.
I have no idea what "rich" anti gas drilling people you are talking about. Most of us live in houses that are on 1/4 acre lots or less. You must be confusing us for the wealthy people who have leased their large pieces of land so they can continue to get rich and line the pockets of the gas companies. I am going to guess you must think you live far enough away, well over 1000', that a gas well won't affect your quality of life. Think again. I am going to assume you are much like the rest of us. Your house is on a smaller lot just like most of ours are. Do the math. It isn't going to help you retirement or children's college fund in the end. But it will change this town forever and the value of our homes forever. Just talk to anyone who has lived with a gas well in their neighborhood for the last few years in Wise County and Tarrant County. I have spoke with many people and gone to their homes, met with them and saw for myself. Many said they would love to come and talk to us here in Flower Mound. The problem is the gas companies are the only ones who will get rich off the gas drilling. Remember, your "royalties" are based on the net amount after the cost to drill the well, frac it, transfer it, sell it, taxes, etc. Go back to gas drilling 101. The money doesn't last for long either. I think expecting a neighbor to live 300 or 500 feet from the well is unsportsman like conduct! So don't preach team work here.
I've lived in FM for a number of years and have yet to meet an "overpaid tree-hugging yuppie". It sounds like FM is being painted with another town's brush. I live in a nice home and drive a decent vehicle but I can assure you, I've worked HARD for all of it. I believe you might be confusing a caring and unique community with zip code somewhere in California that is now in television syndication.
I've lived in FM for a number of years and have yet to meet an "overpaid tree-hugging yuppie". It sounds like FM is being painted with another town's brush. I live in a nice home and drive a decent vehicle but I can assure you, I've worked HARD for all of it. I believe you might be confusing a caring and unique community with zip code somewhere in California that is now in television syndication.
If you are going to bring up Gas Drilling 101, please stick to FACTS not misinformation. Royalty owners DO NOT pay one cent for the cost of drilling the well, fraccing the well, operating the well, fixing problems with the well, etc., etc. Since most of FMCAUD have not heard of the Barnett Shale until recieving notices in the mail back in February, you obviously have not had time to complete Gas Drilling 101, unless it was the short course. I do enjoy the discourse on this site, but as tight as tensions are, non-truths should not be a part of it.
Is that what the gas companies told you? Since there is hardly any regulation for the industry, they can claim whatever amount they want to have the royalties come out of. They to tax it that is for sure. Yes there is tension when you start accusing people of being " overpaid tree hugging yuppies "and start throwing out the "do it for your fellow neighbor" crap. We try to keep hateful remarks off this site but people like you seem to only know how to communicate about gas drilling in this manner. Which goes to show there is nothing good about gas drilling. I am sure you have more rude and nasty things to say so go ahead, make yourself look unethical.
In my business I have met a LOT of royalty owners doing very well with there new found "mail box" money, without any gripes (except a month of noise). Quarter acre lots won't buy Corvettes, but will buy clothes and college textbooks. I can't understand why someone would belittle that.
Gee, I wasn't "that" poster. I guess that is what happens when you are anonymous. But I'll take your vent anyway if you try to stick to the facts. The only taxes are assessed by the county as ad valorem and by the IRS as income. Where are you getting all this faulty information?
And as for the previous poster, I think your remarks were a little salty as well. Chill
Here are some articles about pipelines and royalty checks. I think we need to get back to what this site is about. I agree we must share info in an ETHICAL way.
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/796952.html
http://startelegram.typepad.com/barnett_shale/files/gas_pipelines_might_be_hidden_worry.html
http://www.riverreporter.com/issues/08-05-08/head2-drilling.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-oakhurst_07wes.ART.West.Edition1.42d03c2.html
Just in case you were wondering were I got my royalty facts. Go to the link below and read pages 4,5 6, and 7 carefully. I would never post any misinformation. The "workback formula" is when the gas companies subtract transportation, gathering, treating, marketing, and other post-production costs. It is a historical rule, but Texas still uses it. So most of our royalty checks would be very small, and you are right, taxable. I did not mean the gas companies tax the check. I reread what I posted and it did sound like that is what I said.
http://www.allbusiness.com/mining/oil-gas-extraction-crude-petroleum-natural/4100376-1.html
If a business owner (who is not C H) is actually posting on here, I challenge them to contact the administrator of this board personally so that we can verify this independently. i.e. we will call the businessowner back at their place of business to confirm this is an actual concern and take appropriate action to ensure there is no confusion. Until you do that, I have to assume this is a land man over at CH, anyone with a 2nd grade education can read the sign and unless you have been living under a rock you know what is going on in the community. Like another poster said, maybe you should go talk to the business that is causing all of the issues in the community and tell them to get an office in downtown Dallas. Please direct your concerns to the other appropriate parties as well.
I'd also like to address the joke of drilling for 30 days. 30 days is optimistic at best. The wells don't always go that easy, so lets not kid ourselves. The rig will be there much longer.
Too many braindead on this site. Adios. I hope they do drill on every corner.
Good Bye! You won't be missed.
Ironically, your response to the business owner about the picketing is... we have a right to picket around your business, sorry you work so close to CH. Ironically, you are telling this businessperson that your actions that effect his business are your right. But at the same time you are mad that CH wants to drill on property you do not own, but will effect YOUR home. Funny how you defend yourselves to the business owner that you have a right to picket even if it is disruptful to the business, but then you fight to strip that right away from the landowner that wants to drill. We can justify anything it seems.
I can't believe you are even comparing less than 20 days of picketing for a few hours each day to a gas rig that will be 24\7 for 4- 6 weeks (for each well drilled) and then fracing which can go on for up to 20 years. There are no large trucks, noise, grounds and trees being cleared for them to picket. It doesn't change quality of anyones life. The picketing has been done on the sidewalk along the road which is separated from the business by a large grass area. Also, I drove by this area this past Saturday and Sunday as I do every Saturday and Sunday and there where 1 or 2 cars in these businesses parking lots as usual on the weekend. I hardly doubt this was a huge disruption to their business.
Rights are hierarchical. I wasn't aware of the 28th amendment which conveys the right to drill, I am aware of another amendment which does allow us to protest peacefully. No, I'm not a "tree hugging liberal", who can only spout the 1st ammendment. I am savy and defend all rights, but they are hierarchical and there is a pecking order. As far as "landowner rights", so I can expect that you will expend equal energy to defend landowners rights whenever a pipleine tries to go through a "landowners" property. Or do landowners rights stop at possession of 1 acre or less? I can't wait to hear your answer to this one.
Doesn't take the 28th amenment to give anybody the right to drill. All it takes is the hundreds, if not thousands of Texas court cases that have set many legal precedents that the surface estate is subservient to the mineral estate. This state has based it's economy on drilling for the last hundred years. The legal question is, does the mineral estate override HOA-like city ordinances. This gas will provide energy for the masses. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I have had land condemned for roadways that all locals use and am familiar with it. So be it.
Well, we can safely assume to know where that post came from. I can almost see you salivating at the chance to run a bulldozer through our neighborhoods. Maybe the next neighborhood will be yours and for something you don't believe has to happen. The law is very ambiguous as to the right of common carrier status for an individual for profit company. You are not a utility and this is not a road so don't compare the two. In 100 years, there has never been drilling in neighborhoods like this, it is untested, and you know it. You just don't want to loose the PR battle, and you are losing it BTW. Everyone loves a underdog, and the individual homeowner is the unequivocal
underdog here. The pendulum of power has too long swayed to big oil and gas (even a lot of old time hard core republicans are starting to see this) and I want to be there when it swings back. In a perfect democracy, no ones gets everything they want. You are like a young spoiled child, who has gotten their way and now throws a temper tantrum when they don't, guess what, your not getting your way in Flower Mound.
So are you publicly saying you are going to condemn private land?
I guess I did not make it very clear. It was my land that was condemned for ED, twice. You can fight it for twenty years as we did, but you inevitably lose, unless laws are changed at the state level, not the local level. That is my point. And after re-reading my previous post I did not state it properly. Sorry.
Wow. 20 years, that's a long fight. There was some legislation that stalled out last session, it is my understanding that it was a little "pie in the sky" for the landowner. The same authors are going to try again this session with more realistic expectations. We can only hope they are successful in time. All I can say is this, I personally, am in it for the long haul. The attrition rate of landmen is so high, I will outlast at least 15-20. :)
My family is in it for the long haul too! ED twice, that is crazy. I can see why you might have lost faith down the road. When you are the underdog like all of us, I guess things can stay the same or only get better. I agree it has to change on the state level or higher!
By reading some of the posts from the pro urban drilling side of this issue, we must be a thorn in the bush to see such hostility and name calling.
Another article on ED and pipelines
sorry here it is
http://www.co.denton.tx.us/dept/main.asp?Dept=17
Okay, I am braindead. Here is the real article on pipelines.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/013008dnmetgaslines.39b077b.html
sorry
To the comment about watching NBC to see what the "opponent" says.
That is your problem, you see the gas company as your opponent. I work for an oil and gas company, and this is the problem with mineral owners like yourself.
You don't understand that gas drilling in your area makes your local economy absolutely flourish;
You don't understand that the gas company is not against you, the noise is a temporary inconvenience to you, and your selfishness blinds you to the fact that it is in the gas companies best interest to make you happy, simply because it is easier for them to operate;
My main point is that if you see the gas company as your "opponent", there is a fundamental flaw in your thinking, and you need to re-examine what you are fighting for.
To the person that said that drilling/fracing expenses are taken out of royalties... You are completely and utterly incorrect.
The only reason that I am even speaking on this is because you chose to address someone in a sarcastic tone with what "they should know", when in fact you are the one that is ignorant.
Although it is all negotiable, royalty deductions only account for 'post-production expenses' i.e. transport of oil and gas via trucks and gas used to power compressors, pumps, etc. That is it. So please don't take up that sarcastic position without knowing the facts yourself.
That being said, most of the protesters are people that do not receive any kind of royalty because of one reason or another. That is a fact; I understand their position-That they do not want noise for 30 days, or trucks. I would probably feel the same way. But I am a REASONABLE PERSON, and I would understand that gas drilling is great for the local economy. It benefits the whole. People who do not receive royalties do not see it this way. I understand that, but I do not understand how people could be so selfish.
I believe it is because they do not really know the true facts behind the numbers- i.e. how much money flows through the community and how much it helps everyone.
To the person that said a 30 day rig in the Barnett is optimistic at best is completely wrong.
I am a landman, and you people spouting this misinformation is making me laugh. I like to spend my lunch hour getting a glimpse at the "other side".
I could realistically sit here for hours and tell each and every one of you people why you are dead wrong.
Since the Barnett is primarily drilled at about 7,000ft vertical depth, and problems rarely arise because it is a proven resource play, wells almost always take between 30-45 days. RARELY (10% of the time or so) will a well take 60 days to spud and complete.
I spoke previously about the guy that claimed that royalty deductions included drilling/workover expenses, and pointed out that he is dead wrong.
There are many many more posts with misinformation, maybe someday I'll have the time to go through them all and corerct them.
Before you people spew your verbal diarrhea everywhere, at least have a factual grasp on what you are talking about.
thanks
To the person that said a 30 day rig in the Barnett is optimistic at best is completely wrong.
I am a landman, and you people spouting this misinformation is making me laugh. I like to spend my lunch hour getting a glimpse at the "other side".
I could realistically sit here for hours and tell each and every one of you people why you are dead wrong.
Since the Barnett is primarily drilled at about 7,000ft vertical depth, and problems rarely arise because it is a proven resource play, wells almost always take between 30-45 days. RARELY (10% of the time or so) will a well take 60 days to spud and complete.
I spoke previously about the guy that claimed that royalty deductions included drilling/workover expenses, and pointed out that he is dead wrong.
There are many many more posts with misinformation, maybe someday I'll have the time to go through them all and corerct them.
Before you people spew your verbal diarrhea everywhere, at least have a factual grasp on what you are talking about.
thanks
If there is so much money flowing to the communities, why did Ft. Worth just have to lay a bunch of people off? You'd think with "all of that money" they could have found a little to keep some people employed.
Just because you have money, doesn't mean you have to waste it on some possibly worthless employees. What organization doesn't have those. Blame the loss of jobs on Natural gas. How utterly uneducated can some peaople be?
I didn't blame it on natural gas. The bigger picture is that this was partially brought on by a 24 million dollar shortfall in the city budget. So I ask again, if you have all this money from gas drilling, why would you have a budget shortfall? A couple of possibilites: 1) The city is very poorly managed and is already spending all of the "extra" money and then some 2) The city is NOT getting all of the money all of the gas companies say they are. Either way, the citizen gets screwed again.
Do you think the housing market crash was caused by non payment of drilling royalties, too? If i am not mistaken, most of the drilling royalties in Ft. Worth, are put in some kind of trust for future spending. Please keep to posting facts and not frightened ridiculous conjecture.
No, that was caused by the housing industry preying on people who didn't know any better (not unlike landmen) and by people who bought homes they couldn't afford. Only part of the money is going to the trust, a lot of it is going for new spending and other capital projects (which will need to be maintained, which will cost even more money over time) When the gas checks dry up (just like the wells) who will pay for all of that? This "income" is temporary, and gov't always loves new spending and once it starts, it never stops, even you should be able to come to that conclusion.
To the Landman..(coach)....
If we have verbal diarrhea...you're verbally constipated. Let's be real here...the facts are this while it may only take 30 days to drill a well (again best case), technically that's per hole correct? How many holes do you plan to put on the land...just one? No you're going to put more than one...so lets say four holes. That means you have to pick the rig up and move it to the next hole and drill for 30 more days. so 30 days times four holes would be 120 days....We know you're not going to waiste your time drilling just one hole. So I think it's advisable to speak the truth out of your other hole while we're at it. I think it's great you are taking the time to embrace technology in your spare time...I'm just recommending you go to the start button and click shutdown.
Why is it that most of the anti- drillers have to be rude and inconsiderate? This really does nothing for the "cause" and shows true ignorance. I am not the landman poster.
In the post where it was said "verbal diarrhea" it was stated. "I am a landman". So unless you recently quit your job, then I believe the poster who called you on your statement was correct. As far as being rude and inconsiderate, most of the time, the pro drilling posters start with the rude comments leaving those who are anti dril ling to defend themselves. I come to this blog to get info and share it, and it is unfortunate that some use it to vent anger towards those of us that don't want drilling and pipelines that carry raw gas through our yards.
First time poster - I'm saddened by the tone of some of these postings. It's truly sad that educated adults resort to name calling and attempt to justify bad behavior by adding a link to "prove" a point. Let's practice what we preach to our children and follow the golden rule.
There has been some very bad blood on this site. But, reading the posts I have to disagree with your statement about the links. Adding a link is not about proving a point, it is about sharing where the information came from. That is what this site is really about. Since the nasty posters keep questioning where the facts come from, I think people who add a link to show the info, aren't doing it to be arrogant but to defend themselves. I agree, the name calling is bad behavior but should not be associated with sharing info.
I agree that sharing information is beneficial. However, my point is that many of the links are prefaced with argumentative statements and cynical remarks. The links should speak for themselves and not be used to thumb your nose. Adding a link isn't the issue, anyway. The sarcasm and hateful comments serve no useful purpose. We should be talking about a peaceful resolution instead of how we can beat our "opponent". We should all be in this together...regardless of the outcome.
Hey - you left-wing tree-huggers - go back to the left coast or east coast where your state and local governments are bankrupt because of your unfunded "social agendas". There's no place for you here...
How many of you "Citizens Against Urban Drilling" are actual property owners. You know, the people that pay property taxes???
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